Few days ago, as I was reading the local newspaper; fed up with news about war, crimes, natural disaster, and a sick old Austrian bastard and his little secret family, I read the ‘Dear Abby’ column for a change. There was a letter from a lady who appear to have a daughter in law mentioned as Carmella. This lady complained that Carmella and her family always talk in their native language in front of the lady and her American family. She thought this is rude and asked for some suggestions.
Before we judge this lady as a snob ignorant bitch, let’s pause for a while. Imagine you’re visiting a country you’ve never been to nor speak their language. Wouldn’t you speak in your native language with your family or friends who come along with you? Did it ever occur to you that the local people might think you are being rude by not talking in their language?
Different example. A paranoid coworker of mine said the main reason she’s hesitant to go to a nail care center runs by Vietnamese (or other Asian ethnicity; but mostly Vietnam) was because, “Well, they talk in their native language to each other while they’re doing my nails. I think they’re talking about me.” I usually give her a big ‘Geez!’ whenever she complains but I think if I were her, I’d feel the same way too.
When my mother and brother were here visiting from Indonesia, I tried my best to be a translator for the big family conversation. My parents-in-law were present too, and it’s kind of hard to try to translate everything my Indonesian family said into English, cause sometimes it’s just not that important to translate. Like for instance, my mom was commenting on how cute the dessert cake was to me. And my in-laws were like, “What’s that??” Then again my mom made a comment about a painting hanging on the wall, and again my in-laws jumped right in and said, “Hmmm??? What’s that?”
So yeah, I did speak in Bahasa with my mom here and there when it’s just a casual talk. I thought it’s more convinient since she doesn’t speak English fluently. I tried to be extra careful when somebody else’s around (not necessarily strangers), I’d translate too. I did not get any remarks on being rude at that point, but would they say it to me anyway? Or would they write to ‘Dear Abby’ instead like Carmella’s mother-in-law? Is it fair to expect people to speak the national language of the country they’re in at that moment? Then by golly, the French is not so snobbish after all!
I don’t think that lady is a snob, but I find it kind of funny that when a tourist from English-speaking country is visiting Indonesia, we’re the ones that are expected to converse in English with them, instead of them learning Bahasa just so that they could communicate with us.
In the other hand, it is really annoying when you’re in an English-speaking country and there are people around you who speak their native language, loud and clear for everyone to hear – though we have absolutely no clue whatsoever as to what they’re talking about.
When I was in high school overseas there were a lot of Indonesian students from Surabaya and it used to embarrass the hell out of me to hear them yelling Javanese language whilst queuing for food in the canteen area, meanwhile all the local students would give a “what the fuck” look at each other.
What was even worse was that these Indo students didn’t try to learn English. One of the points their parents sent them overseas was obviously for them to improve their English skills but I think they missed this concept completely.
They declined themselves to get acquainted with their local classmates, they hung out with the other Indo students in their own corner, they even went out together with the other Indo students – it was as if this little Indonesian bubble was just moved from one country to the next!
So it was no wonder that these students had spent many years being overseas and yet had not taken the most advantage to improve their English.
therry, so you did feel annoyed when you hear somebody yappin’ in their native language in an english-speaking country? hell, i feel quite the same, girl. i don’t know why…
Ah, I guess I’m lucky people here in Scotland don’t really care what you do or talk. I just went back from lunch and coffee with bunch of Indonesians and of course we spoke in Indo the whole time. It would be considered ‘snob’ if I suddenly say something in English.
However, when I speak to my best friend down in London, we speak in English – that because I’m not patience enough to wait for her to find the perfect words in Indonesian (sometimes the pause can be as long as one minute. Imagine that you must wait one minute on each word?) as she’s been living outside the country for almost 15 years and must dig deep.
If I hear a bunch of people speak Indian, or Polish, I wouldn’t care, as long as they don’t look at me while they’re talking. But my Dutch friend actually feels the same way as your friend as she goes to Vietnamese place for nail treatments and always thinks the people talk about them in their native language.
My husband always feels embarrassed because he only can speak English and wishes he could speak in Indo with my family – who are able to speak in English but always choose to talk to me in Indo.
I guess people should be relaxed, don’t be too judgmental, set aside the prejudice, and realize that some people can speak more than one language and choose to not to speak in English.
@Diny, yes I was annoyed. Speaking only to those you want to to speak to is more than fine, but speaking so loudly that even the guy from across the road can hear you crystal clear, is not fine…
Perhaps if language limitation was used as an excuse then it was alright, but from what I saw, most overseas students actually enjoyed the fact that the natives didn’t understand their language and therefore could say whatever the hell the wanted, or even talked about the white guy who was sitting right across them on the train; how strange he looked and how weird he smelt, grinning and giggling with themselves, whilst the white dude gradually looked more and more uncomfortable.
I am also annoyed with this thing. One time a Danish girl in my class raised her hand and asked a question to the lecturer in Danish although the class was taught in English. I found it rude.
A lot of Chinese students here also fall into that category because when you work in group with two or more Chinese students, they’ll speak Chinese and ignore you.
For me, I had a strange experience though, a Semarang-born girl I knew here claimed that she had forgotten her bahasa (despite her only 7 year stay here) and that she preferred to communicate with me in Danish. I find it just plain stupid. I stopped talking to her altogether.
did she suffer from amnesia and totally forgot her bahasa?
maybe she knocked her head on something and suffered from retardation or brain damage. Nobody can forget their mother tongue when they have “only” been staying abroad for 7 years, and besides, what language does she use to communicate with her parents in Semarang? Danish? I bet my ass about that LOL sorry for the rudeness 🙂
interesting topic.
i do speak indonesian friends in indonesian. except when we are out with friends who are not indonesian, then we try speaking in english or (bad) french.
funny thing, i told the writer about this in her blog. i know an indonesian girl from bandung. 7 years ago, when she had been living here for a year and a half (or two, i forget), she was talking to me and several times she claims she doesn’t remember several words in indonesian, she said she thinks in french.
yep, that bitch.
now, she has been here for 9 years and i havent seen her for 2. i imagine she does not speak indonesian anymore. lol
therry: im guilty of talking about people in indonesian with my brother while they are right in front of us. but i only do it here, not in holland. it’s risky there cos many people understand indonesian. :p
i had a nasty exp about this when i was still living in ny. will post it in another blog entry in the future. 🙂
bad Rima, bad! lol
@the writer: your friend is undoubtedly a pretentious poser.
@rima: ooh, behave, baby *austin powers mode*
i admit that my bahasa is deteriorating, but i don’t completely forget how to talk in bahasa. is that even possible? i still count silently in bahasa, or mumble to myself. then my coworkers would turn around and asked my, “what’d you say?”
@diny: true, you can forget certain words in bahasa since you don’t use it daily but i find it hard to believe that you forget it altogether. Even if my bahasa is not that good anymore (my written bahasa is awful, so is my english LOL) I can proudly say that I am very much fluent in “jawa timur-an” :)))
@rima: I dunno why these people do that? Are they ashamed of their own language?
@therry: she’s not just a pretentious poser, she’s a bitch. She even wrote me sms in Danish. I wrote her back saying that I was looking for an Indonesian friend so that I would be able to speak Indonesian with her since I missed speaking the language. That wrapped up our “relationship” LOL
I will NEVER forget how to speak bahasa, although because I dont use it much here apart from speaking to hubbie and indo friends, I sometimes am at a loss of a word or two. But that’s something normal I guess, for people who live in another country. I don’t think forgetting your mother tongue is possible, although a slight change in accent is probable.
And I am especially not ashamed of my language.. secara gue sering gitu ngajarin temen2 orang belgi kata2 dalam bahasa indonesia.. kata mereka bahasa indonesia lucu, kedengerannya kaya “teketek ketek ketek” lol
Those are pretentious people who acts as if they can’t speak indo no more. But I don’t get people who think I’m pretentious just because I write in English (not even good english! lol) and point our indonesian spelling/grammatical mistakes (gue sempet post photo2 signs di indo dalam bahasa inggris yg salah salah.. kan lucu ya? trus ada yang protes! buset deh)
au ah gelap.. ke laut aje..
Relax people …
It’s happen everywhere, not only in States, or Holland or France, but also in Indonesia.
Maybe only Indonesian who knows that besides our Nation Language we also our native language, which is more than 10 languages.
The main point is people should respect each other and put themselves in other’s shoes.
Speaking in our own language is much much more convenient for us, but we should respect others who also don’t understand our own language.
In regards with Carmella’s mother in law, she should understand that it must be difficult for her in laws to speak in English. So she should understand about it.
While Chinese people, am in the project with Chinese people where they never go abroad outside their country, and Indonesia is their 1st country that they visited, so can you imagine, we sit together, fighting, launghing with language limitiation ?
Do I feel that they rude ? No I don’t because we can also speak in Indonesia also.
What about France ? as we all know, france is the 2nd language after English. Do they protest if we speak in English or our native language, while we were in their country ? As far as I know, it’s okay …
Back to the writer and therry … well, it’s vice versa, even in Indonesia the tourist also speak in their native language in front of Indonesian people and they talk bad things about Indonesia people where they taught that no one understand what they are talking. Lucky me that I’ve a chance to hear that…
So … please … relax …
I left Indonesia almost 14 years ago and my Indonesian actually got better since I started teaching Indonesian 5 years ago. No kidding! I am talking about well structured – proper Indonesian (bahasa Indonesia baku). I am so used to speaking proper Indonesian sometimes I got carried away when I am talking or emailing my close friends and family, they thought they were talking/emailing the female version of Yus Badudu or Sutan Takdir Alisjahbana.
I have heard Indonesians who have lived overseas and claimed to forget their Indonesian (or Indonesian actress Cinta Laura 😉 ), I suggest these people to talk to my students. Maybe these non Indonesian people can help them find their way back to bahasa Indonesia.
A well structured and proper Bahasa reply would be:
Yang terhormat Ibu Ellin,
Terima kasih banyak saya ucapkan untuk komentar Anda menyoal tulisan ini. Saya hargai perhatian dan waktu Anda. Saran Anda terhadap orang Indonesia yang mengaku ‘lupa’ Bahasa, menarik juga.
How did it sound? Not too weird, I hope :p
Wah, ternyata Ibu Ellin dan Ibu Diny sangat fasih berbahasa Indonesia yang baik dan benar. Saya menjadi sedikit iri, karena bahasa Indonesia saya, walaupun sangat fasih tapi kurang benar… lol
Interesting topic. I like your point , about “US being rude when we dont talk in our native language to other native indonesians”.
Thing is, my friends will think Im a snob if i just converse in indo with them , while my partner is around. However if I do talk to them in indo all the time my partner will feel left out..and in turn I will feel that I’;ve been rude. * SIGH *
I like what ‘finally woken’ has said, maybe we should all just relaxed and stop being too judgemental!
All of this said, I wont forget bahasa…, i have to dig deep sometimes. But will never forget it! 😉
woops
Thing is, my friends will think Im a snob if i just converse in ENGLISH with them , while my partner is around. However if I do talk to them in indo all the time my partner will feel left out..and in turn I will feel that I’;ve been rude. * SIGH *
…
and we should all just relax…
lol…bad in bahasa AND in english!
Try to think that English speaking people always insist on speaking in English everywhere they go and expect others to understand (sometimes when others don’t understand these people are upset). Should that be considered rude, ignorant, or snob?
Anita, good point. English has been known as a universal language therefor it is expected to be spoken or at least known world wide. It does sound kind of cocky, as I’d questioned, “Well, who’s the jerk who constituted this?” but this is a fact.
As for those people who can only speak one language, expect others to speak and/or understand it, then got upset when others don’t, I’d say it’s ignorant. That applies to anybody. French are just as notorious as Americans, btw.
Don’t worry, only the jealous lot would complain (can’t speak other language as Diny mentioned probably?).
When I listen to people speaking in Chinese, Vietnamese, Tagalog, French, Dutch, etc. in an English speaking country, they sound like music to my ears. I sometimes try to guess which language these people are talking in, it’s kinda fun. I just found out that Samoan and Maori languages have some similar words with ‘bahasa Batak’. Isn’t it awesome! (…and I’m no linguist).
On a serious note, it’s quite amusing that some of you call our language bahasa. I always try to set the record straight with my friends here that our language is Indonesian, or ‘bahasa Indonesia’. Never heard any other country in the world calling its language ‘language’, have you? 🙂
Mangaranap, point well taken. When I hear Spanish or Italian is being spoken (even the curse words!), I’m loving it. Sounds sooooo romantic :p
And you are right about ‘Bahasa’. It’s me being lazy by shortening it in my post, my apology *blushing* Wikipedia even explains that ‘Indonesian officials abroad and some Indonesian civilians refer to the Indonesian language as Bahasa when speaking to non Indonesians. This is grammatically incorrect’.
Mangaranap, I instantly love you when I read your respond. My students and I are fighting this “bahasa” war like there’s no tomorrow. Everybody speaks bahasa alright; bahasa tubuh, bahasa Inggris, bahasa Italy, bahasa Spanyol, bahasa Indonesia etc. I think we need to get it to the main stream media that bahasa or Indo is not our national language.
Great topic Diny.
Hi Diny,
Nice topic and interesting discussion! Living in The Netherlands only 20 min. drive from Germany I experience that Germans who come to the city where I live, insist that we speak German to them. More absurd situation is when the Dutch visit German towns in the border region. The Dutch would then speak Dutch and the Germans in their own language, for example: a Dutch pays his bill and asks for a change in coins in Dutch, he gets his changes & served in German by the waitress. But hey they are able to communicate.
Another example: I went eating at the Wagamama rest. in Amsterdam last year. The waiter helped me in English! He was a tourist who worked temporarily there. For me it felt weird though to meet someone working in a restaurant in a country whose language he doesn’t speak.
The point is: I think that English speaking people insist that English should be spoken everywhere they go since this is one of the world acknowledge languages (besides Chinese, Spanish, French & Arabic).
I agree with Mangaranap, although sometimes I find it very tiring hearing many people buzzing in their native language in my surroundings.
The point is: I think that English speaking people insist that English should be spoken everywhere they go since this is one of the world acknowledge languages (besides Chinese, Spanish, French & Arabic).
Lorraine, I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. Sucks, but oh well…
Unfortunately many of Americans got cocky because of that and expect EVERYBODY to speak it. If only you could watch an American TV show ‘Amazing Raze’, you sure will be amazed to see that most of the contestants were constantly bitching when they go to a non-speaking English country.